Peter Deswood:

I do a lot of walkthroughs with principals and the kids are always like, “Oh, man, who are you? You look like the president.” Because sometimes I’ll wear a suit. But they’re like, “Oh, you look like the president.” I never had that. I never had a principal that was Native.

Alec Patton:

This is High Tech High Unboxed. I’m Alec Patton. And that was the voice of Peter Deswood, the Assistant Superintendent of the Central Consolidated School District in northwestern New Mexico. This is one of two interviews with Navajo educators that we’re putting out this week. The other is with Bernita Bedah, who teaches a bilingual kindergarten class Navajo and English. I highly recommend listening to both episodes.

I spoke with Peter at the 2023 Deeper Learning Conference. We talked about the significance of being an American Indian school leader and the path that took him there. We talked about his experience of education and what he’s doing to make sure that kids in his district have a different experience. But we started by talking about exactly where the Central Consolidated School District is and who it serves.

Peter Deswood:

We’re in northwestern New Mexico, really close to the Four Corners, a very unique district. We have three unique communities that we serve. Two of the communities are on the Navajo reservation, and the third is, I guess, a border town, so it’s off reservation.

Alec Patton:

Got It. Most of the district is on a reservation?

Peter Deswood:

Yes. There’s probably 10 mile by 40 mile strip of land that’s off the reservation. So, 95, 96% of it is on the Navajo Nation.

Alec Patton:

Got it. How big is the district total?

Peter Deswood:

Well, I believe it’s about the size of Rhode Island.

Alec Patton:

Wow.

Peter Deswood:

That’s just our district, but the Navajo Nation, I believe is the size of West Virginia.

Alec Patton:

Okay. Got it. That’s big.

Peter Deswood:

Yeah, it’s a pretty good size. We’re very rural. In two of our communities, Shiprock and then Newcomb area, we actually have teacherages for our staff who work out there in those rural areas.

Alec Patton:

You have? What did you say was the word?

Peter Deswood:

Teacherages, housing for teachers.

Alec Patton:

Oh, okay. Got it.

Peter Deswood:

Yeah. Very different than a lot of places just because of how remote our two areas are.

Alec Patton:

How many schools are in the district?

Peter Deswood:

There are 17 schools, and we serve about 5,000 students in three comprehensive high schools. An alternative school, there’s a special preschool. There is also three middle schools, seven elementary schools.

Alec Patton:

Got it. What’s the demographic makeup of the kids? Is it mostly Navajo kids? How does that-

Peter Deswood:

That’s correct. Actually, can I do my Navajo introduction first?

Alec Patton:

Yeah, please. Sorry.

Peter Deswood:

Oh, yeah. That’s okay. [foreign language 00:02:58]. I just did my clan introduction. I am Navajo. That’s why I asked if it was being videoed, because I’m brown. But anyway, I just wanted to do my clan introduction because that’s how we identify as Diné, people, from the Four Corners region. I am Navajo, that’s why we’re talking about our school district. Just to provide that context because of the relationship based on our four clans and how we identify with our relatives. I guess it would be kinship. But in our language, we call that [foreign language 00:03:39], which is a lot of the principals. All right. Now, what was your original question? Sorry.

Alec Patton:

I have no idea. It’s all right. That was-

Peter Deswood:

Oh. Oh, the demographics?

Alec Patton:

Yeah.

Peter Deswood:

Yeah. Of the 5,000 students, 94% of our students are Navajo. 100% of our district is, I guess, free lunch. I think we have 4% that are Mexican American, which I think leaves 2% of our students are Caucasian or Anglo.

Alec Patton:

You said about the four clans, is that right? How does that-

Peter Deswood:

The clan system is, my first clan is my mom’s clan. Navajo culture is a matrilineal. Even though, I guess, my birth certificate name is Patrilineal, it’s my dad’s name, but traditionally, our clans, we inherit our mother’s clan. The first clan that I said is my mom’s clan. The second clan is my dad’s clan. And then, I also do my maternal and paternal grandfathers. That’s how we identify, and that’s how we relate with people.

I guess, that’s part of our tradition and how we try to identify with other people who are Navajo, so that we have kinship. That’s established in the beginning when we first meet. In fact, you usually say it after you shake hands and do a greeting. And then, people ask, “Oh, what are your clans?” In Navajo, we say, “[foreign language 00:05:14]?” What are your clans? is essentially what is being asked by giving your clans.

Alec Patton:

Got it.

Peter Deswood:

Thanks for setting this up so we can talk about our school district and our staff. Anybody looking for a job out there, I’ll do it. I’ll do a pitch.

Alec Patton:

Awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

Peter Deswood:

We do have teacherages, so if anybody’s looking for a job, we do have competitive wages.

Alec Patton:

Where does your story as an educator start?

Peter Deswood:

Yeah. Actually, my first language actually, Navajo. That was the first language that I learned and knew and understood. Part of that was just growing up on the reservation in Arizona. The Navajo reservation covers Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, but I was raised in Arizona, dirt-floor hogan. A hogan is a traditional dwelling of Navajo people. I had no running water in the hogan that my mom and dad got married in, so I guess it started from there. It started the community that I was raised in, my ancestors and my relatives investing, I guess, in me, teaching the cultural teachings.

I went to various different schools on the reservation, I guess a boarding school in Lukachukai, Arizona. And then, of course, I think when I was in fifth grade, my mom and dad moved us off the reservation to a border town, Farmington, New Mexico. And then, I ended up graduating, going to elementary, middle school, and high school there. Of course, went off to college and bachelor’s, master’s, PhD, work as well.

Alec Patton:

When you say border town, which border are you referring to?

Peter Deswood:

Within, I guess, Native communities in the United States, when people refer to a border town, we refer to a border town as a town that borders a reservation.

Alec Patton:

Got it.

Peter Deswood:

There’s a lot of, I guess, racism that exists on those reservations. There’s been a big movement in the last three or four years for murdered, missing Indigenous relatives. Because a lot of times, in these border-town communities, a lot of our relatives are lost. They’re either kidnapped, sex-trafficked or whatever. Stolen, murdered as well.

Anyway, that’s what I mean by border town. It’s predominantly white. So then, a lot of times, these communities that border reservations, they serve as the economic hub for the Indigenous people to go and get their resources; food, clothing, things like that. It’s a shopping area for that border, Navajo, or an Indian reservation, or probably territory as well.

Alec Patton:

When did you start teaching?

Peter Deswood:

Yeah, about 20 years ago. I actually worked at the Indian Community School in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, so I’ve taught urban American Indians from the seven recognized tribes in Wisconsin. I was there probably about three years.

Alec Patton:

How’d you end up in Wisconsin?

Peter Deswood:

Yeah. That’s a separate story, but I just ended up there, I guess. Followed a path I was supposed to take. Anyway, I actually was working as an accountant. Actually, I was bored and one of my colleagues was like, “Hey, there’s this school right over here by Marquette. You should go take a look at it.” I went over there and applied, and I got hired and I taught computers and technology. Having a bachelor’s in accounting and a minor in MIS, so I taught computer classes. And I also taught mathematics.

Anyway, I was there for about three years. I got my teaching credential from the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. There’s a program called Urban American Indian Teacher Training Program. It was a Department of Education grant. Anyway, that’s how I got into education. There’s not a lot of males in education, so there was a focus on serving underserved populations and using equity to bring people into education.

After that, I worked in Tohatchi, New Mexico, which is actually on the Navajo reservation. I worked there for a couple of years. And then, I actually ended up working in a town called Farmington, New Mexico for about 15 years. And then, been a middle school teacher, high school teacher, high school principal. Coached every sport except for wrestling. Well, I coached football, boys basketball, girls basketball, track. I’ve once coached volleyball.

Alec Patton:

You may not want to answer this, but what’s your favorite sport to coach?

Peter Deswood:

Well, basketball.

Alec Patton:

Yeah.

Peter Deswood:

Yeah. Yeah, that’s probably my favorite sport.

Alec Patton:

Do you think being Navajo, being raised in the community you were raised in, does that inform your approach to education?

Peter Deswood:

Yeah, it does. This conference actually had me reflect on this with the journal. I think one of the things was that the education that I saw, many of my educators were non-Navajo. They were Anglo in a Navajo community, and so I got the mainstream history. Books that I read, I didn’t see any Indigenous authors or people of color as far as authors. I didn’t see myself in the curriculum, so I think that made an impact on who I was. In fact, I think that’s one thing that’s important about a lot of the work that happened, or a lot of the trainings that I attended, was getting students to talk about their trauma and what was going on in their lives.

The reason I say that is because once I moved off the reservation, and being a student of color and being in a school that was 90 plus percent Caucasian, and whenever you watch media, I don’t know, 90210, those shows back in the ’80s, ’90s, there’s very few people of color in there. I remember being a middle school student, being ashamed of being a brown person. Because everyone thought people who were cool were white, because that’s all they saw on TV. I think that made an impact on me as a student.

When I went through my teacher training program, and a lot of the work that’s done here at High Tech High and the Deeper Learning Conferences, who we are as people, our identity matters. I think that’s one thing that’s really nice about the Deeper Learning Conferences, is getting kids to not be ashamed of who they are. It’s hard, but there’s a lot of things that people and kids deal with daily. I think that was actually one of the sessions that I was a part of, where it was actually student-led, a deep dive. They talked about their experiences, whether it was gender or race or skin color.

But I think that’s something that is important to bring out. Especially growing, living in mainstream, there’s a challenge that happens. I think part of my educational journey was learning to validate students of color, their history, where they came from, their story as well. The community that I actually work in right now, Central Consolidated Schools, we’re basically three, maybe four cultures. Of course, there’s Navajo, there’s white culture, there’s also our Hispanic culture as well. And then, we actually have a significant, maybe about 100 Filipino students as well. It’s diverse, but mainly 94% are Navajo.

But what I’m getting at is, when I worked in Milwaukee, I had students from 30 to 40 different cultural backgrounds. Having to learn the uniqueness in each of their cultures, I learned so much about the Hmong culture when I was in Milwaukee, or Cuban, Puerto Rican, a lot of Latin American cultures and the differences between them. And of course, the German, the Swedish, different communities as well. But that’s one thing I think that was pretty cool, was validating and learning about your students and where they come from and hearing their voices.

Alec Patton:

Yeah. If you’re a teacher, you’re teaching a student with a different cultural background to yours, one you’re not that familiar with, what’s the first step to gain that understanding?

Peter Deswood:

I think one thing is, if you’re teaching that community, is to, I guess, immerse yourself in the community, the different culture, the cultural events. I know it takes time to earn that, but like I said, I worked in Milwaukee, and I’m not from Milwaukee. But I immersed myself in the seven Indigenous tribes’ culture; their powwows, their dances, some of their ceremonies. Because people like to share. Navajo people like to share as well. But getting invited and going, attending cultural events, and then immersing yourself in that culture.

I know whenever as an adult I’ve traveled quite extensively, and I try to immerse myself in the local culture, to get to know what’s going on with people in that area. Very similar, I think I would take that approach if we have teachers who are non-Navajo, come out to our schools, is to try to understand where our students come from. Because when you immerse yourself in that culture and understand the ebb and flow of the values of that community, people start to respect you.

Of course, learning some words and some of the language to communicate with the elders and kids and parents who do speak Navajo as well. I think that would be the approach I would take.

Alec Patton:

Now, a certain number of white teachers are going to be like, “Well, it’s going to be weird if I go to a powwow,” or, “People are going to feel uncomfortable.” White people have a history of going places uninvited and expecting to be accommodated. I think one thing that a lot of teachers are going to be conscious of is, “Well, I want to immerse myself in the culture, but I don’t want to invite myself to the culture.”

Peter Deswood:

What I found actually when I worked out in Tohatchi at a bureau Indian school, was a lot of the students, you build a relationship with kids and then they invite you to these cultural events. If you genuinely care, you’re there for the right reasons, your kids will see that. Because that’s honestly what happened. I was there for the kids. The kids were the priority. And then the students actually are the ones that invited me to the sweats when I was in Wisconsin, or tobacco ceremonies.

You get in. They’ll invite you because the students respect you as an adult, and most importantly as an educator. I think that would be the avenue. But of course, doing some research. Doing research and trying to understand the community, the region. But it happens. I don’t know. There’s trust that’s built. I think once that trust is built, then students will invite non-Navajo teachers into their family and religious ceremonies. Cultural ceremonies as well.

Alec Patton:

Thinking back to that middle-school Peter, what would you tell him if you could go back and talk to him now?

Peter Deswood:

Well, that’s a really good question. I think part of it is building an understanding and putting up images of people of color that are evident and visual within … Like your office. I see people of color. I see artwork from a multicultural lens, so I think that would help out as well. But I think what I would tell myself is that, “You’re a unique person. You have a lot of culture. You come from a group of people that know where they come from, generations and generations and generations and generations.”

I’m going to be honest with you, it took me living in Wisconsin to understand the richness that I had in my life. Because when I was away, I saw Native communities who had very little, or who had almost lost their culture, and I’m like, “Oh my gosh, I can’t believe how tied people are, or hungry to know where they came from and know about their names and their language.” But it made me appreciate that even more. But of course, I was a 20-something-year-old at that time.

But it came back full swing and full circle, and I was like, I realized, you know what? I do have richness. I have a lot. I can understand the Navajo language. I can speak it. I can’t read it, but when people talk with me, I know what they’re saying and I can respond back. I guess there was self-actualization. In education, we always talk about self-efficacy and developing that in students. Well, that came back. I was like, “Oh my gosh, I have really good qualities that I was proud to be.”

I guess to tell myself that, “Hey, just hang in there. You’re going to go through some challenges as far as identity.” But I guess a lot of kids go through that. They don’t know who they are, their identity. But it just took me a little bit longer to realize the gifts that I was blessed with. And I think that’s one thing that’s pretty cool about this conference is, there’s intentionality with identity. It all starts with who we are as people and where we come from.

I think maybe if someone did that, “Hey, Peter, you come from a really cool background, very, very unique circumstances,” if a teacher would’ve said that to me, I would’ve been like, “Oh, yeah, I do.” I think that’s how I would answer it.

Alec Patton:

What do you think? What would middle-school Peter make of where you are now?

Peter Deswood:

Considering where I came from, I don’t know if I mentioned this, but I actually was going through school and I would get in trouble a lot. Suspended multiple times. I think I was first suspended in third grade for three days.

Alec Patton:

For what?

Peter Deswood:

I don’t even remember. Fighting, probably? Fighting. I think that’s part of it. Like I said, I went to school in a border town in a lot of racial tensions, a lot of racism towards Navajo people. Maybe that was where the aggression was coming from. In addition, too, I had an IEP when I was going through school. I had an individual education plan. I was a student with a disability. I had a specific learning disability in reading and writing, in addition to ADHD.

I was battling multiple things, in addition to just being a student of color. There was a point in my life, I think I was in sixth or seventh grade, where I starting to run around with gangs in the town. But it took one coach that I had to say, “Hey, Peter, you should come and join the football team,” and then get plugged into a different system. I don’t know, did I answer your question?

Alec Patton:

Yeah.

Peter Deswood:

Okay.

Alec Patton:

I think so. Well, no, you didn’t because it was really interesting. But I was wondering what that middle-school Peter-

Peter Deswood:

Oh, what I would think? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, that’s right. I think, man, I’d be like, I knew I’d be successful, but I feel so … As Assistant Superintendent, I’m number two in charge, I guess, and overseeing 1,000 employees, 600 teachers, 17 schools. I don’t know. I knew I would be making an impact somehow, but on this level? To have that exponential impact on 5,000 kids each year? That’s pretty powerful to do. Bringing almost 60 educators to this conference so they can see that there’s a different way to teach kids. We don’t have to rely on worksheets. That’s the impact that, I guess, a person in my position has.

I bring those tough experiences, like that trauma that I went through, to this position, because I always advocate for students who have disabilities, or students who come from a different culture. And then, a lot of these kids, they don’t get to see people who look like them in, sorry about that, in leadership positions. I think with that, there’s a lot of power in that. Because I do a lot of walkthroughs with principals and the kids are always like, “Oh, man, who are you? You look like the president.” Because sometimes I’ll wear a suit. But they’re like, “Oh, you look like the president.”

I never had that. I never had had a principal that was Native American. I think going through school, I probably had three teachers that looked like me, that could understand where I came from. But I think that’s it. That’s the power of the journey that, I guess, I’ve been through, because there’s power in what goes on as an educator. Because you think about it. The kids look up to our teachers. The kids look up to anybody that’s inside the school building. And then, like I said, as a principal, and then, of course, as an assistant superintendent of a school district, I guess that’s what I would tell myself, is just keep going.

Everything will all work out. It’s a part of your journey. Just trust the process, I guess. I hate to be cliche, but just follow your heart and it’s going to work out. Because if your heart’s in the right place, you’ll get to where you’re supposed to be.

Alec Patton:

You brought up one thing in there about the different approaches to education and how you’re thinking about that. Because I think one piece of the puzzle that you talked about is what you’re learning, that you were just not learning about people like you. You weren’t learning about the history from a Navajo perspective.

The other side of that, though, is how you’re learning. It would’ve got you somewhere if you’d had lectures and textbooks that talked about Navajo people. That would not be nothing, but I also think it wouldn’t be the full thing that you needed at that point.

I’m curious about in your district, what you’ve got going on. You brought all these people out to this conference, obviously. You’re, obviously, thinking about stuff. I guess the two questions is, what are you excited about, about what teaching and learning looks like now? And then, where are you aiming for?

Peter Deswood:

Let me just take this story back a couple years. Like I said, I was a high school principal before, and I brought a staff of six here to this Deeper Learning Conference in 2017. My teachers, after they left here, they were excited about teaching again because, “Oh, we can do project-based learning.” They saw different modalities of learning. So then, they started implementing. They’re like, “Oh, we can do this.” They would question, “We can do this?” They had to be given the okay to do something different, and part of it was because my high school was like 75% students of color.

So then, one of the things we really focused on was having highly engaging lessons like what we see here at the different levels of school. It opened their eyes. We wanted to broaden our teachers’ eyes. That’s the vision, is incorporating project-based learning. In the City of New Mexico, they have this thing, it’s called a graduate profile in Capstone. That guides what we do, and actually presented to our school board and our tribal community. We’re like, “This is what we want our students to be when they leave.” One of the things that’s important about project-based learning is the 21st century skills; the soft skills that students learn by being a part of project-based learning.

That’s where this is headed, is we do want, well, the State of New Mexico actually wants us to have a capstone project, something that students can do. But it’s hard to get to your senior year and say, “Oh, you’re going to do a project.” But if they’re doing it throughout elementary school, middle school, when they get to high school, it’s just another project that they’re going to do. That’s where I want the district to go, and I know my superintendent is very supportive of the work we’re doing because our whole thing is what’s best for kids.

Like the speaker, the keynote said the other day was, “We’re here for what’s best for kids.” And I strongly believe that this is what’s best for kids. They need to know who they are. We need to develop self-efficacy. We need them to believe in the South, and as the educators, we’re the ones that are nurturing that. We’re the ones planting the seeds, so that they can be an oak tree down the road, or apple tree, whatever type of tree they want to be.

The other thing too is, as the high school principal that implemented a lot of these things, we saw the kids. The kids were happy. The school was their home. Many of them said it was their home. They said that it was there family, and that’s what I want in every one of our 17 schools, is I want our kids to feel welcome. I want them to be validated, I want them to be accepted, and I want them to excel and be ready for their next steps after high school.

Alec Patton:

That’s awesome. All right. Final thing is, you are also a podcaster, so I want to give a chance to shout out your podcast. Tell us about it.

Peter Deswood:

Yeah. Absolutely. My podcast is called 21st Century Native American Leaders. You can look it on every platform, Spotify. I even have a YouTube channel, just Navajo Podcast or Peter Deswood. But, well, what I do is, I interview Native leaders. When I was first a principal, I was like, “Oh my gosh, what are people doing?” I was looking for information and hearing people’s journeys to becoming a leader. I didn’t find anything specifically for Native Americans, Indigenous people. So then, I just started it back in 2000, I think 16.

I was at a training and I’m like, “What if I just start my own podcast? I’ll highlight Native leaders, whether politicians, activists, athletes, business people, entrepreneurs as well, mathematicians, scientists who are Indigenous.” And then just highlighting this. “Tell me about your story. How did you get to your position? What were some of the struggles?” Because that’s what I wanted to know, was what they had to do to become a leader within their community, or to get to the position that they were at.

Essentially, I was doing it for myself, to hear what people who are Native had to struggle and overcome to become a successful leader.

Alec Patton:

That’s awesome. Thank you so much.

Peter Deswood:

Yeah. Absolutely.

Alec Patton:

Much appreciated.

Peter Deswood:

Yeah, thanks for having me. We’re excited to bring some more educators back next year, so that they can see what’s going on and what’s possible.

Alec Patton:

High Tech High Unboxed is hosted and edited by me, Alec Patton. Our theme music is by Brother Herschel. Huge thanks to Peter Deswood for this conversation. Check the show notes to find a link to the companion episode to this one, my interview with Bernita Bedah, who teaches a bilingual kindergarten class Navajo and English. We’ve also posted a link to Peter Deswood’s podcast, 21st Century Native Leaders. Make sure you check that out, too. Thanks for listening.